In this episode, we discuss how GTD® has a positive influence on relationships and the benefits it has for couples.
00:00 Todd: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another Change Your Game with GTD Podcast. Today I am, as usual, here with Robert Peake, but we also have a special guest. Robert’s wife Val is with us as well, so good morning to both of you.
00:22 Robert Peake: Hi.
00:23 Val: Hi.
00:24 Todd: Our goal in these podcasts is to help you to understand and implement the GTD methodology and all the benefits that that brings, and Val, thank you so much for being with us today. What we’re going to do today is a bit of a departure. Normally, these are sort of two-handed podcasts. Every once in a while, Rob and I have guests, but today, Val and Robert are gonna talk about how GTD has had an influence on their relationship. We’ll be talking about lots of things. We’ll be talking about the benefits that it brings, we’ll be talking about how they got started, so stay tuned for that. We’ll see who encouraged who, and we’ll also be talking about what they’re doing practically, day-to-day, week-to-week, in the course of the year, in some cases, to help things along. I’m not gonna be any more specific about it than that ’cause I don’t wanna pre-judge what benefits they think they see in Getting Things Done.
01:25 Todd: So maybe if we could just start, either one of you, this is a question. I won’t prioritise, either one of you, as you think about the impact that your GTD practice, as it were, your individual, or group, or your couple’s GTD practice, what kind of benefits do those things have for you? Why do it, what’s the plus?
01:51 Val: Well, I think the first thing that springs to mind for me is, one of the things that Robert shared with me is, who owns this project? So, well, first of all, the idea of projects and next actions was new to me at one point, but also, just if we’re discussing. At the moment, we’re ordering a new smart doorbell so that the dog doesn’t bark at the delivery people. But it’s like, rather than just going, “Oh yeah, that would be a nice idea,” and then it just sits there or it gets forgotten about, just to know, well, who’s gonna investigate that, who’s gonna order it? It’s just a very simple, practical thing, but I find that really, really helpful so that things don’t just get lost in space.
02:36 Todd: [02:36] ____.
02:36 RP: Lost in space, yeah. Yeah, and I think overall, for me, a lot of that practical stuff that we have to do, ’cause a relationship is actually a bunch of relationships. We’re married, and we’re also roommates in a way, we’re also looking after house a together, we’re also co-owners of pets, we’re a lot of different things. But a lot of those things that are really practical in nature stay relegated, I think, to a practical level. They don’t encroach on the emotional part of our relationship more than they have to. They still do, we’re still a couple, it’s still a dynamic thing, but it feels to me like one of the real benefits is that we’re clear about how we handle the practical stuff so the practical stuff doesn’t get in the way of the stuff that makes a relationship good.
03:34 Val: Yeah, and I think because we both work from home and have our own businesses, it would be very easy for business-y type or practical-y type stuff to kind of take over and seep over into our evenings and weekends, and so I find that setting aside time where we check in about various projects, or finances, or whatever it is, that we actually will invite each other to meetings, even though we’re in the house all day together anyway. But it actually, I find the benefit of that is that then we can sit and watch a movie in the evening or go out to dinner and not find ourselves talking about subjects that are boring and difficult. [laughter]
04:14 RP: No boring and difficult dinners, no boring and difficult dinners, only interesting, interesting.
04:25 Todd: It’s interesting, as you’re both talking about that, I think what’s coming to mind for me is this phrase that we use a lot in the work, which is that everything should get appropriate attention. Nothing in your life, as an individual or as a couple, it sounds like to me, gets more attention than it needs, and your joint GTD practice helps you to make sure that nothing gets too much attention. Am I reading that right?
04:49 RP: I think that’s a good way to put it, yeah. And I think that there’s a certain nice trust that builds when you know that you’re on the same page about the importance of your commitments to the big things and to the little things. It’s amazing how little things can start to accumulate into resentment, almost like silt in a river. Things don’t flow quite as smoothly if a lot of these little things build up, so it’s just great to be on the same page about, hey, you know what, let’s figure out who handles that, let’s make sure we do handle that and let’s move on. So yeah, appropriate attention to the stuff of a practical nature then lets us give appropriate attention to the good stuff, the stuff that’s a lot more enjoyable sometimes.
05:35 Todd: Yeah. Something else that occurs to me. I think when I was getting certified as a GTD coach all those years ago, I read a statistic that they’d done some research into couples and the communications that these couples had and some… I’m not gonna remember the number exactly, but it was north of 50% of all of the conversations that these couples had, and this was a big research study, were about logistics. It’s about who’s gonna take the dog to the vet, and who’s gonna do this, and who’s gonna do that, and who’s gonna do that. And one of the things that they said was that this quite often led to friction because those couples didn’t have helpful ways to have those conversations, so they had them again and again, there were no clear… There wasn’t clear responsibility, so as you say, it led to… As it fermented, it led to friction and disharmony in those relationships.
06:28 Val: Yeah. I’m also thinking about the 50,000 feet level, you know the levels?
06:34 Todd: Yeah.
06:34 Val: Because for example, if we think about our finances, we went from being young people, living more day-to-day or month-to-month, to really setting long-term goals for ourselves in terms of savings, and investments, and buying a house, and I think GTD really helped us to be able to lift our heads up to a higher level and set these goals that then did make a regular financial meeting more interesting because we knew where we were heading. It wasn’t just at a coping level, but at a more optimistic, visionary level.
07:14 RP: Yeah, we talk about corporate, in the corporate world about alignment, and it’s, “Are you aligned?” and whatever, but I don’t know if people ever actually think about how important it is to kinda be aligned, or let’s just call it looking in the same direction together as a couple because if you’re headed in the same direction and have similar long-term goals, and, of course, similar values, as you said, Val, it makes the process of getting there a lot more enjoyable ’cause you’re not rubbing up against, “Oh, I thought we were doing this with that, and I thought we were doing that with this.” [chuckle] You’re not having those conversations if you really make it conscious. I think that’s one of the things that one of our practises is to try and make conscious, “Hey, what are… Where do we wanna head, and are we both in agreement about that, and if not, let’s keep talking.”
08:03 Todd: Great stuff. And so, let me ask the next question, which I ask with some trepidation/anticipation, which is, so how did this all get started? So who… Did somebody give… Did one of you give just a copy of David Allen’s book to the other and say, “Here, you really need this?”
08:25 Todd: How did it…
08:25 RP: That would have gone over well, yeah. That’s a great way to do it, yes, “Because you’re so broken and messed up, I’d like to give you this. You’re almost perfect as a partner.”
08:34 Val: I think it was actually fairly organic, in that when we started dating, I think at some point you mentioned to me that you were excited about this methodology and that you’d started using it at work, and then I was doing a master’s degree at University of Santa Monica, and David was actually booked to come and give a seminar there to us as students. So Rob recommended highly that I attend, and I did, and that’s when I started to learn all about it. So it was kind of organic, I think.
09:07 RP: But what convinced you that it would be a good idea to actually attend a seminar versus [09:13] ____.
09:14 Val: I think it must have been the way you were handling your life. [chuckle]
09:16 RP: The radiant glow of my saint life. [laughter]
09:22 Val: Well, I certainly know you were very excited about it.
09:25 RP: Yeah, enthusiasm. Yeah.
09:26 Val: Yeah, your enthusiasm, and the clarity with which you were handling your various projects and things already in your working life.
09:37 RP: So your perception of me when we first got going wasn’t that I was super uptight, organised guy, or was there a little bit of that? Or was there any trepidation?
09:45 Val: No, you weren’t that, definitely. [laughter]
09:47 RP: Okay, okay. We’ve never had this conversation. So I’m curious, what did you really think about…
09:55 Val: Well, you weren’t that long out of college, so it’s like you weren’t in that executive level that you’re at now, but you did have that sense of the different levels, where you wanted to head, and just in terms of the clarity of how you captured, for example, having a capture tool, that was one of the first things I noticed, is that we’d be doing a hike or something, and Rob would whip out this little notebook and scribble away, and to start to see the value of that, that was really interesting to me.
10:28 Todd: Well I, all of a sudden, feel that I’ve taken on a slightly different role, which is, I’m helping you as a couple to uncover important other issues, and I’ll send you an invoice for my therapy [10:40] ____.
10:44 Todd: So okay, so you went to the seminar and then, has it been an evolution of… Has it been an evolution of thinking about, what are our joint practices? What are we gonna do together? How are we gonna make things happen together in our relationship? Or has the… Did the framework solidify pretty quickly? What’s the… How’s it grown? If it has grown.
11:11 Val: I think it’s been an evolution. I think… There’s going to the seminar and having this full-on experience of the whole methodology, and then there’s being able to digest that and implement it over time. And I think, for me, I haven’t been necessarily a 100%, always have my inbox at zero and all the rest of it. So it’s been, for me, working out what works for me to implement at what level, and I think it’s actually, the things that I implement the most are the things that affect us both as a couple, so it has been an evolution, I’d say. I don’t know. What do you think, Rob?
11:57 RP: I think so. It’s felt pretty organic as I’m kinda trying to unpack what the steps were, but I think you’re right, I think we very much just went, “Oh, you know what, this is a place of friction that GTD could help with. Let’s try this.” And I think we both have a natural orientation toward, “Let’s problem solve,” rather than, “Let’s get stuck in the problem and assume that’s the way it’s always gonna be.” So, sort of a wanting to grow mindset, a wanting to improve things approach. So having, for me, having these various GTD practices and then identifying an issue like, “Oh, we didn’t know who… We didn’t know who owned that project. That’s why it’s not really moving forward is ’cause we had some assumptions that we hadn’t made explicit between us, let’s do that. Let’s look at our project list. Let’s get that clarified.” So I think it was very organic, and I think it’s nice because then you see, oh, this works, rather than, I have to do 100% of all of this for it to start working, it’s like, “Oh, just this works for us,” helps us.
13:03 Val: There’ve been things I’ve had to get used to. For example, I’ll say in passing to Rob, “Oh, we need to talk about X,” or, “Why don’t we invite so-and-so over?” And he’ll say, “Oh, send me an email.” [chuckle] And that’s taken me a little while to get used to, ’cause I’d be like, “But I’m talking to you right now.” But I think that’s to do with the way that you process, isn’t it, Rob?
13:24 RP: Yeah, yeah, it’s important to me that there’s some representation of it so that I don’t have to keep it in my head, and also so that I don’t forget. So often, yeah, I’ll say, “Great, can you just send me a quick calendar invite on that?” Or, “Can you send me an email?” Or you’ll see me pull out my capture tool and say, “Great, I’ve got it, I’ve captured it.” But it’s just the thing of, if it’s important to us, one of us has got to have it somewhere that we’re gonna then see it again and make sure it actually happens. But yes, I think… I can only imagine that would be a little jarring, ’cause people often, I think people think email is for work, and how icky to email each other in your [14:11] ____.
14:11 Val: I think part of that is we’ve worked out that we have very different modalities in terms of how we process things. So I’m very, very auditory, so if he tells me something, I’ll remember it, whereas if I tell you something, you’re much better at visual, you’re very, very acute visually. So, it’s much… Accommodating that for each other has been part of the picture.
14:34 RP: Yeah, having a shared calendar alone is…
14:37 Val: Yeah, a massive…
14:37 RP: Huge, huge help. Just because I do care where you are when, and what’s going on, and I want to coordinate it all, it’s just having a visual representation gives me a chance to do that, rather than trying to keep it in my head, even short-term.
14:53 Val: Yeah, and when we…
14:53 RP: Yeah, that’s another… Sorry, go ahead.
14:54 Val: When we first moved to the country, our bandwidth was pretty low here, so we couldn’t both have Skype meetings at the same time. So the shared calendar was really vital then, we had to work around each other’s clients.
15:08 RP: “Who’s in the meeting room?” [laughter] “Who’s using the wifi today?” [laughter]
15:12 Val: So just a three-way like this is, like, wow.
15:14 RP: Yes, we’ve since upgraded. Yeah.
15:18 Todd: So we’ve made a transition there, I think, to some of the tactical things that you’re doing and the ways that you’re working together, using the word ‘work’ in terms of helping to make things happen. So you’ve mentioned some specific, so sending emails to each other is something you’re not shy about, this idea of a shared calendar. A shared calendar is, by the way, something that my wife and I use as well, and I have found has been tremendously helpful over the years. Let me ask you a different question about that, so you’ve got the shared calendar, what format does it take, and how do you review it, individually and together? What does that look like?
16:00 RP: Yeah, so it’s, in our case, Google Calendar, but you could have it hosted on Office 365, or anywhere. I think you actually have it in the calendar app on your…
16:10 Val: On the Mac.
16:10 RP: And I use it on the Google Calendar and the web browser, but basically, it’s an overlay, so I can either tick a box and have both mine and Val’s, or I can untick Val’s and just have mine. But generally, I leave both up because, again, we’re working from home, it’s useful to coordinate, we want to find our lunch window, we want to find the points where we’re gonna intersect. So for me, it’s pretty traditional GTD stuff where I’m reviewing the day every day, probably reviewing the next day at the end of the day, and of course, during the weekly review, looking forward and back, both at mine and Val’s.
16:45 RP: But then we periodically get together and say, “Hey, let’s look a few weeks ahead,” like we’re planning a trip, or just regulating the amount of social engagement we have going, actually, is a whole thing that we navigate together. So making sure we’ve got the right mix of social and work, and how we’re spending our weekends, we’ll actually get together and look several weeks or even months out, and that’s been hugely helpful for me, I know, so we can come into agreement. A massive introvert, Val’s a massive extrovert, right? So aligning where we put our time, it means getting out the calendar and negotiating, basically, on what we’re doing when. What about you, Val? How do you… I know you’re in the calendar every day with clients and all kinds of things.
17:35 Val: I mean, I’m similar to you. And also, I would just say that I do use the… One of the things you’ve shown me that I find really useful is to put at the top of the calendar, not in a specific hour, but at the top, “Heard from the vet yet?” or “Has this client paid yet?” or whatever it is. So I very much use those reminders on the calendar, and they’re extremely helpful to me. But that’s… I mean, I suppose I could… Yeah, sometimes I would invite you to one of those as well. Right?
18:04 RP: Definitely, yeah.
18:05 Val: So that we both check in on that day.
18:07 RP: We invite each other to meetings. I think that’s probably a thing where people would go, “Really? You email each other and you invite each other to meetings? What is this, a business?” But no, we do, we say, “Hey, we need a meeting,” and it needs to be on both our calendars so that we just know we’re both in this one, versus Val has a client, or I have a meeting or whatever, and it just shows up on one calendar or the other. When it shows up on both calendars…
18:29 Val: Or a joint thing, like getting our taxes to the accountant at the same time…
18:33 RP: Right, joint reminder exactly, a day-specific reminder.
18:35 Todd: That’s interesting. So Debbie and I, as I say, we do keep a shared calendar, but we don’t really… We don’t invite each other to meetings. That’s something that’s not in our practise. But I’ll tell you, the thing that you’ve already mentioned that I think has brought a huge benefit to us is this… Just this joint review of the calendar, and especially because the both of us… Well, before lockdown, anyway, we travelled for business a lot, and we’d be out for evenings with clients, or colleagues, or whatever. And we both cook here at home. So there was this, sort of this really helpful rhythm of just making sure who’s going to be where, and when. Who’s doing dinner tomorrow, who’s doing dinner next Tuesday, that sort of thing. And we started doing that many, many years ago, but very soon after we started to do that, the stress level in our relationship, the [19:30] ____ stress just went down, and immediately, really.
19:34 Todd: I mean, it was again, just because we were becoming… We were getting on the same page about these commitments who’s got what, you know, what are the responsibilities, and it made a huge difference, it made a huge difference. Well, what else? So tactically speaking, what else are you doing in terms of again, in terms of your joint practise? What about the sort of the physical world in terms of your physical workspaces or workspace, what does that look like?
20:00 Val: Well, we did share an office one time, but we found that didn’t work…
20:04 RP: It didn’t go well. [laughter]
20:08 Val: Because I’m very verbal and I’m like, “Oh look at this” and, “Ooh, have you thought… ”
20:14 RP: And then I’d get frustrated with a technical challenge and be fuming or whatever.
20:19 Val: Yes, that’s right, oh my God.
20:19 RP: So I need to be able to fume in my own space and Val needs to be able to talk things out in her space, so… Yeah, so we have separate spaces.
20:26 Val: Yeah, separate workspaces.
20:29 RP: But we both have inboxes, as you can see. Maybe that’s another thing where people go, “Really?” But as I look at my inbox, I’m looking at things that are in my inbox, and Val put this in my inbox, she said, “Hey, you forgot your mask,” so she knows literally anything and everything where it’s mine and I forgot it or I mislaid it or I might want it or whatever, there’s one place for it to go. It’s like, “Here, it’s yours.” Rather than running up to me to give it to me or leaving it somewhere and hoping I trip on it or anything like that. So that’s a very, very simple physical thing, but we do put stuff in each other’s inboxes.
21:04 Todd: Open to using each other’s inboxes, very cool.
21:07 RP: We have shared filing, shared reference, in a three-drawer filing cabinet. We just… All the shared stuff that’s paper that we need to keep, T for taxes and seven years of that, and… A for auto insurance…
21:23 Val: Insurance and stuff like that.
21:23 RP: Yeah, all the different insurances we have, pet stuff, all the pet stuff. And it’s just… And we’re basically in agreement about what label is on there and then it’s alphabetical, so we can any time, either one of us can get the pet insurance out of the folder as needed.
21:43 Todd: And is it also professional and personal reference, or is it really pretty much your kind of household personal stuff?
21:48 RP: Good question, yeah. So it’s just our personal household stuff. Val, for your clients, you have individual folders for each client.
21:54 Val: Yeah, I have email folders and physical folders for my clients in my own separate… Yeah.
22:00 RP: So that’s really pretty your personal reference. Then, our work stuff actually is separate ’cause we don’t need to be in and out of each other’s work stuff, basically. Yes, makes sense.
22:07 Todd: Cool. What else? The other thing that I’m curious about, and, Robert, you very helpfully sent me this list, sort of a tick-list of things that you do together as a couple. And one of the things that I noticed that I thought was really cool and I’d like to hear you talk some more about is doing an annual review. Could you talk a bit more about that? What’s it about? When does it happen? What’s the format? What are the benefits?
22:35 RP: Well, it happens once every 10 years… I’m kidding. We haven’t done it every year, but we’ve enjoyed it every year that we have done it, we’ve really, I think, enjoyed it. It’s been a really useful exercise. I’ll tell you the parts I remember, then Val, you can chime in on the parts you remember. I think one of the nice things was closure about the past year, mostly acknowledging some of our successes, but also maybe acknowledging some of the hard things and how we dealt with them and stuff we don’t wanna bring into the coming year. But mostly it was like, “Hey, we had a good year, here’s what happened, here’s what we enjoyed, here’s what was… ” So reflecting on some of that. And then looking ahead to the coming year, really looking at what do we wanna create in the coming year and doing a bit of a brainstorm, and then looking at that brainstorm and kinda going, “Okay, well, who wants to take on what? What do we actually wanna commit to in the coming year?”
23:33 Val: Yeah, and sometimes we actually used some of the tools from my USM training. There’s one called An Ideal Scene, so that’s when you take a particular topic or area of focus or a specific goal and then you get a lot more detailed about what it would look like, feel like if you were experiencing it in that moment. It’s just a very nice, juicy way of goal-setting where you say ‘I am’ or ‘We are’ and then you put yourself in the picture with all the sensory detail, and in a way that the idea is that it’s at least 50% believable within the next year.
24:10 Todd: Yeah, yeah, [24:10] ____.
24:11 Val: So there’s room in there to be imaginative and visionary, but it’s not completely crazy in terms of reasonability.
24:19 RP: We’ve even done mood boards, haven’t we?
24:21 Val: Oh yeah.
24:22 RP: I’m remembering that we had this big poster and we got a bunch of basically Country Living type magazines and we just cut out all the stuff we liked and threw it up there.
24:30 Val: Oh yeah, that was great.
24:30 RP: We had that up in our bedroom for years.
24:34 Val: And now we’re living in a country cottage.
24:34 RP: And now we’re living in a country cottage. We realized that basically, we were describing the place we were renting at that time, pretty much, and then we actually bought that place that we were renting. So that was fun, like a visual way to really put juicy detail on some of these goals and visions and longer-term stuff, as well as, like you said, Val, it’s just a spider diagram of what does it look like, what does it feel like, what is the real experience of success?
25:00 Val: Yeah, we did one for our wedding, didn’t we? And that was amazing the way it turned out, so…
25:05 RP: Yeah, we kinda GTD’d our wedding, actually, we kinda really did.
25:08 Todd: Good effects.
25:10 Val: Oh my God, yes, because it was… The wedding’s like this uber project, and then there’s all these sub-projects, like dress and cake and venue and catering and it was so many sub-projects. I actually don’t think we could have done our wedding without GTD.
25:24 RP: No, I think that’s very true. Or we might not have gone through with it. Well, we would have, but it would have been more stressful, should we say, a stressful start to a relationship to have to not have that support.
25:36 Val: I think that’s when I really bought in, a couple of years into our relationship when we got married, was just seeing what GTD was able to help us achieve. Because it was a do-it-yourself wedding, like everything we had to organize down to the glasses and the cutlery and the tables and the decorations and…
25:55 RP: And you were in the middle of grad school.
25:57 Val: Yes.
25:57 RP: And the venue fell through four weeks…
26:00 Val: Seven weeks before.
26:01 RP: Seven weeks beforehand with people coming…
26:01 Val: And we had people coming from all over the world.
26:03 RP: People coming from Australia and England and all over the world to the US venue, and we managed to recover from that thanks to having clear… Still have a clear outcome, still have a clear desired outcome here, we just don’t know where that’s gonna happen now. No problems, only projects.
26:18 Val: And the venue ended up being a lot more suitable and pretty, and yeah, and we got it for free which was pretty amazing.
26:24 Todd: And you got it for free.
26:25 RP: And we got it for free, yeah, yeah. It was kind of amazing, it was kind of amazing. So yeah, I think… That’s cool that the wedding was actually a big turning point for you of realizing this stuff is good.
26:38 Todd: There you go. A great testimonial for Getting Things Done. We’re coming toward the end of our time. I think I’d like to ask a question of the both of you. If you were advising other couples, okay, about, hey, we’re thinking about this, we think it might have some benefit, how do they get started? What do they do first? What do they make sure that they consider as they try to tread this path maybe a little bit?
27:08 RP: I think one of the things, again, we’re kinda just… It’s been very organic and so we’re kind of deconstructing, how did we get here, in a way, but I think one of the things I realize is that it’s been very helpful to find those points of pain is too strong a term, but those points of friction, maybe, or those things that aren’t working as well, that are in some, probably some way practical in nature, that we both agree aren’t working ideally, and then look to see, is there a GTD principle we could apply here that will solve it, that will help, and so that we’re both getting benefit from the investment in doing this, in keeping a shared checklist or identifying some projects together or using a ‘waiting for’ list or shared calendar, or whatever. So that it’s very practical, and you’re very much solving an issue each time, over time. I think that’s one of the things that served us well.
28:08 Val: Yes, Todd, when you’re asking that, are you assuming both couples already know how to do it or not?
28:14 Todd: That’s a great question. Let’s assume maybe we’ve got someone who’s a GTD, who knows something about GTD, maybe an enthusiastic implementer, maybe someone who’s just curious, but… Yeah, let’s assume only half the couple is familiar with GTD, what would you tell them?
28:29 Val: Wow, yeah, that’s an interesting one. I just keep thinking it’s about communication. So maybe not, if the enthusiast doesn’t start with a lot of technical detail but more with a sense of, “Here’s what I’d really like to be able to be clear with you about. Wouldn’t it be great if we could get more clarity about,” whatever it is, “our calendar,” “our shopping list,” “our goals.” So that it starts with something that’s not technical but it starts with more of a sort of heartfelt intention. And then the methodology could sort of follow that… That strand of energy. Yeah, if that makes any sense?
29:14 Todd: Yeah, no, I think it does that. So you sort of lead with the why, why are we doing this?
29:17 Val: Yeah, exactly.
29:19 Todd: And then the what comes later.
29:21 Val: And it’s like, “Oh well, oh, well, if you’d like that maybe we could try… ” and then just try one thing like a shared calendar or something and just build up gradually. I think the times when I’ve felt unsure about going ahead have been when I felt there’s been too much technical detail about the method like it was just… Let’s just start with one thing.
29:43 Todd: And build from there. Great, listen, thank you very much, both of you for this. I’ve enjoyed it tremendously. I hope you have as well. And I’m sure that a lot of people out there will take some great ideas about how they might make things more friction-free in their relationships. I think that’s always a goal, whether our relationships are personal or professional, it’s always part of our goal is to make those things as friction-free as possible. So for all of those of you out there, thanks once again for being a part of the audience here at the Change Your Game with GTD Podcast. As always, if you have any other topics that you would like us to be talking about in this series, please do let us know. Those of you who are long-time listeners will know, and viewers, will know that we quite often will take requests and we’re very happy to have those from you, so please do let us know about that. In the meantime, I’ll let the two of you say goodbye.
30:41 RP: Thanks, it’s been fun. It’s been great to bring my personal and professional world together a little bit in this way and kinda talk about it, yeah. Thanks, Val, for doing this and sharing your unique perspective I think. I think there’s a lot of people who are GTD enthusiasts who want to know, what does the other half really think and…
31:00 Val: Yeah, you’re welcome, it’s been a lot of fun, and I would just say, I don’t think it’s necessary to do it perfectly. I don’t do it perfectly, but we do it to the extent where we have reached a good level of communication and efficiency, so and then it doesn’t get in the way of the rest of our lives.
31:22 Todd: Great stuff though. Thanks again to both of you. Thank you, everyone, for watching, for listening, and we’ll look forward to being in touch next time. Bye for now.